In gambling/cards/casino, what is “counting cards”?
I’ve never gambled οr played poker etc іn mу life. I’m nοt even οld enough tο gеt іntο a casino уеt (1 more year), bυt I’ve heard people talk аbουt hοw уου саn gеt іntο serious trουblе fοr counting cards οr something lіkе thаt.
Tο mе іt doesn’t sound thаt bаd bυt maybe thаt’s јυѕt mу ignorance. Cаn someone please tеll mе whаt іt exactly іѕ аnd whу іt’s ѕο bаd?
From Wikipedia: “The basic principle behind card counting is that high cards, particularly aces and tens, are better for the player whilst low cards, particularly 4s, 5s and 6s are better for the dealer. A high concentration of Aces and tens give a higher chance of Blackjacks (which pay at 3:2 unless the dealer also has Blackjack), and tens improve the value of doubling. A high number of ten-value cards also makes the insurance bet more profitable since that is essentially a bet that the dealer’s card is a ten (resulting in a dealer Blackjack). Low cards are good for the dealer, because the dealer must hit stiff hands (12-16) unlike the player who can hit or stand according to the strategy. Tens bust all stiff hands and will increase the chance the dealer will lose.”
Now personally, I don’t see what’s so bad about it, other than the fact that casinos and underground gambling rings have a higher chance of losing money because of it, but so what? The number of people who’ve mastered the skill of card counting vs the number of poor schlubs who don’t is hardly comparable.
But apparently, card counting was originally made illegal in Las Vegas for two reason: the first reason is because it has to do with a game of chance. By Nevada law, it is illegal to gain, or attempt to gain, an advantage over another player in a game of chance without their knowledge or approval.
its cheating. if your smart enough to figure out how to do it. Its for playing blackjack.
a card game strategy used to determine when a player has a probability advantage. The term is used almost exclusively in relation to gaining an advantage over the house in casino games, in particular the tracking of the ratio of high cards to low cards in blackjack
Counting cards is a system that people use to keep track of the ratio of high cards to low cards left in the deck during a game of Black Jack/21. The same thing is done in poker by pro players but it is not against the rules since you still have no clue what your opponent has in his hand.
There are various systems that can be used. The more advanced systems of course give you a better advantage but is harder to keep track of. The concept is that the more high cards left in the deck the more favorable it is for the player. So the player raises their bet when the deck has more high cards and lowers it when the deck is unfavorable. Plus with more advanced systems you can change the way you play your hand by hitting hands you would normally not hit because you know the deck is rich with low cards.
You wont get in big trouble for counting cards at all unless you play Black Jack for high stakes and start making a lot of money. And even then the casino will just ban you from playing Black Jack at their casino and possibly pass the word to other casinos.
A party trick that doesn’t work.
If you are smart enough to be able to work out the way groups of cards move through shuffles and things, that might (when combined with card counting) become a party trick which does work.
You will then get into trouble.
If you go to a Casino, you will normally find yourself in the company of a large number of other gamblers. Some of these gamblers will win money at the end of the night. More of them will lose. The laws of physics dictate that matter and energy can neither be created nor destroyed, so what is in fact happening is:
That the LOSING gamblers are providing the money which is paid to the WINNING gamblers.
Therefore, if you play the games in a way which the other players are not aware of, and which they might find unsporting, and by so doing give yourself an edge over everybody else –
You are doing something reprehensible. In many places this can get you arrested.
In others it can get you thrown out.
In one or two it can get you hospitalized.
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Dear James.
As a blackjack dealer for many years, I can assure you that most card counters are greeted by the table crew and casino management with the same sort of glee that we reserve for people who appear to be trying to use a system on the roulette.
Blackjack has a lower house edge than roulette, but a blackjack table will inevitably hold a higher percentage of the drop than a roulette table will (this probably even extends to the mickey mouse ‘double zero’ wheels they use in countries where the population are just down from the trees. Or down from Iowa or wherever).
This is because of a wonderful aspect of gaming and psychology called ‘The illusion of Control’. Look it up.
We never let on we know our regular punters are cheating, if they have sneaky little habits like making a late bet now and again, and we never bother a card counter unless he starts to get so good he is no longer worth dealing to, and even then we might keep him happy if he likes to come along accompanied by a rich dumb bunch of friends.
That is why we give out ‘win cards’ to help people play.
That is why we give free gaming lessons.
That is why they sell books teaching counting in the gift shop.
That is why the box man throws free chips at the dopey looking bunch of lads who are staring at his table with cupfuls of quarters in each hand.
That is why we allow and encourage people to ‘practice’ (!) for the SLOT MACHINE TOURNAMENTS !!!
We do know what we are doing.
We also know what you are doing. From the moment you start to play money in reasonable sums the inspectors are clocking your buy-in’s color changes and cash outs.
The number of people who can genuinely count the cards and follow packets through shuffles to the point where they could make a nonsense of a game is measured in the hundreds in most countries with a long gaming tradition. They are all known, so they have to work in teams with people other than the counter making the big bets, and they are all banned. Whether card counting is legal or not depends on the country or state you are in. It is legal in the UK. It is illegal in the State of Nevada. I have known of one counter who turned up in a part of the world where I was working who was able to give himself a 23% edge against the house. That was impressive. Less impressive was the fake Italian accent he was trying out, the dark glasses, or his total inability to hide his trademark which was, and presumably still is, a nose like the front end of an F16. That and his age (Eighty something, or looked like it). He was ribbed about the accent and went away in disgust.
If you have a guy from some place in the sticks who has read a book – or maybe bought a gadget from the small ads somewhere, – he will have to be very blatant before we tell him that such an activity is frowned upon. And all we would do if he starts to practice a bit is to deal a bit quicker and cut the deck a bit deeper.
On the other hand, in the Dominican Republic – counter or no counter – they may decide to stop paying a consistent winner out. On any game. An ex-colleague of mine described this practice which he seemed to think had been a reasonable business strategy. ( He extended this system to slot machines, and switched off any which he saw pay out a jackpot).
Counting cards is a proven method for winning at blackjack. It takes a lot of hard work and mental effort to master, but it is possible.
It’s not illegal, but casinos won’t allow you to play if they are sure you are proficient in it to be profitable.
Card counting is a strategy in which the player keeps track of the cards that have already been dealt (They don’t remember every card, rather they keep a running count, awarding different number of points to each card) Thus, they know when the card remaining in the deck are favourable towards the player and when they are unfavourable.
They raise their bet when the deck is favourable and decrease it when it is unfavourable, and consequently they win more when they have an advantage and lose less when the house has an advantage.
Blackjack is a game in which it is possible to play perfect strategy: there is always a correct action to take which is most likely to be profitable for the player.
While playing perfect strategy WITHOUT card counting, the house has only a very small advantage over the player: around 1% (meaning, in the long run, that for every $100 you bet, you will lose $1)
Playing perfect strategy WITH card counting is enough to give the player a small advantage over the house: again, it’s around 1%.
Therefore if you play long enough, you will win money as a mathematical certainty.
I don’t play blackjack and so can’t actually card count, but by many accounts it’s not as difficult difficult to learn as many people believe. No doubt you have to be willing to work hard, but don’t have to be a genius or a savant to do it.
Naturally the casinos do not like players having an advantage over them and so will ban players for card counting.
Note, card counting is NOT illegal, but casinos are allowed to ban you from the casino for it.
I believe it’s not difficult for the casino to tell when someone is card counting. The casino can also keep track of the count (the ratio of good cards to bad left in the shoe) and so if somebody is systematically altering the size of their bets dependent on the count, they are obviously card counting.
As for it being ‘bad’, that’s up to your own conscience. Personally, I don’t see that it’s morally wrong in the slightest: you are not breaking any laws or cheating in any way, you are just gaining an advantage where usually the house has an advantage.
You cannot card count in poker. In poker the cards are shuffled between every hand, so the only information you have concerning the probability of the next card to be dealt is based on what cards are currently visible to you.
*EDIT*
Just read Guru Hank’s answer. He has not got the faintest idea what he is talking about.
First of all, card counting DOES work for a proficient card counter, and you do not need to be able to track cards as they are being shuffled.
Second of all, blackjack, as with every other game played in the casino (except poker) is played against the house, not against the other players. Your success or failure has absolutely no bearing on the success of failure of other players. The only exception is poker, in which you do play against other players rather than against the house.
Third of all, card counting is not illegal and you cannot be arrested for it.
Wow! You sure got a few crap answers!
“Best Answer” to James. He explains it best.
The only other thing I’ll add since you’re so young is this: Casinos were made for ONE REASON ONLY – that is to TAKE your money! It’s good to have a healthy ignorance about gambling. Someday you’ll be old enough, and some friends will want you to go. Go for it, and have fun! If you win, just know it was only because you got LUCKY! There is NO WAY to beat casinos in the long run. (Counting cards is one way to gain a slight advantage, but it is extremely difficult to master, and the casinos can ban you even if you DO get good enough.)